"I'm ready to pull my hair out!" Whether I'm servicing or training, Cub leaders tell me their most common problem is discipline.
Although discipline problems are many and varied, they generally have a single source: the nature of youngsters aged 8-10. Cubs are typically very energetic. They enjoy acting out and test limits whenever there's an opportunity. A Cub leader's job isn't to control a group of rowdy Cubs, but to channel their energy and enthusiasm into constructive program pursuits.
I put "discipline" into two general categories; general and specific. General discipline problems are things such as regular rowdiness or lack of control in a Cub pack. Specific problems might be the pack bully or a Cub who frequently cheats at games.
Here's a typical scenario for a general discipline problem I've seen over and over in service visits through the years.
Most of the discipline problems in a pack like this can be solved with some very basic programming corrections.
First, start the meeting on time. It encourages Cubs to arrive on time, immediately establishes a performance standard for the meeting, and gives you more program time.
Ask your sixers or seconds to complete the six books, collect dues, and take attendance as soon as they arrive. Assign the duty six the tasks of setting up the flags and getting out the totem and other pack props so that they are ready for the meeting.
Have an organized coming-in activity that the rest of the Cubs can join at any point. This is also a good time for badge and star testers to talk to Cubs who have brought in star work for marking.
If Akela is busy with parents or other Cubs, have another leader open the meeting. It's good to rotate the responsibility for openings and closings so that all team members are involved fully in pack routines. If Akela can't be at a meeting, any other leader is always prepared to step in.
When the meeting is ready to begin, catch attention with special pack calls and hand signals. To teach and reinforce these signals with our Cubs, we occasionally play a game. We tell them simply to run around and make noise (they tend to be quite good at this game!). Before long, I raise my hand or call out "Pack" to see how long it takes for them to freeze and be completely quiet.
Never raise your voice to talk over your Cubs' noise. Wait until they become quiet. If at first it takes forever, when you finally have their attention, quietly explain that the delay means they have less time for another activity they really enjoy. If you are consistent, your Cubs will very soon quiet down quickly when you ask for attention.
Incentive: We've found a point system encourages Cubs to wear full uniform and be neat and tidy with Cub Book in hand for inspection. We award points if every member of the six has a certain item of the uniform. For example, if every Cub has a hat, the six receives 5 points; if one hat is missing, they receive no points. The approach encourages sixers to phone their Cubs to remind them to come in proper uniform.
If you use a point system, you need some sort of reward or prize. We use a two level system. First, we have a "Best Six of the Night" award for the six with the most points for that meeting. Over the years, the award has taken different forms, from a necklace of wooden beads to a plywood wolf on a string. A leader gives the sixer the prize and the duty of awarding it to the Cub in his six who did the most to help the six earn the award. Every two to three months, we also give a prize to the six that accumulates the most points over that period of time.
Positive reinforcement maintains discipline more effectively than punishment. It's better to give points for remembering hats than to deduct points if someone forgets, or to reward the first six into the circle for the Grand Howl than to punish the last six.
Rules & Expectations: How many rules do you have in your Cub pack? In mine, there is one: no fighting. All else is covered by what I call "performance expectations". The rule is formal and rigid. If you break it by fighting, you are immediately disciplined, with no exceptions. Performance expectations are less formal and more flexible.
Let's look at a relay as an example of performance expectations. At the end of the game, the winning six is the one sitting in an orderly fashion on the floor, not necessarily the six who finishes first. A six isn't punished if they choose not to sit at the end of the game, but most sixes want to win and, when they complete the relay, they sit.
My advice is to keep rules to a minimum. In order to be effective, a rule must be applied consistently and uniformly. The more rules you have, the more chances you give Cubs to break them and the more chances you have to be inconsistent in enforcing them. If you have a few absolute rules, Cubs will obey them. Just make sure they know the difference between your performance expectations and the rules.
It's a good idea to examine your expectations, too. How do you expect Cubs to behave? What I consider a well-disciplined pack might be considered rowdy by some leaders and far too strict by others. Are your expectations realistic? Do you expect the Cubs to standabsolutely silent at attention for five minutes while you perform a ceremony? If so, you will likely be disappointed. These are energetic enthusiastic youngsters. Noise comes naturally to them. Discuss your discipline expectations with your Service Scouter and your trainers. When you know what level of behaviour to expect, it is much easier to establish a realistic performance standard in the pack.
Realize, too, that your own personality will bring out certain traits in your Cubs. I have a tendency to bring out their rambunctious side. I know many leaders who, just through their own personalities, bring out their quieter side.
I don't think you can work on correcting specific discipline problems until you have good general discipline in the pack. One of the keys is to show problem Cubs exactly what you expect from them. Unless you can use pack behaviour as an example, you will find it difficult to convince them to change behaviour.
Discuss specific discipline problems with your leadership team. Together, establish a plan that addresses the problems of the particular Cub. All Cubs have certain needs. Target your strategies around them. For example, we had a sixer almost ready for Scouts who was losing interest in the pack. It would have been easy to send him to Scouts immediately, but we thought it important that he accept responsibility for his actions before going up.
The Cub and I sat down to talk about his behaviour and set specific performance standards. The reward for meeting the standards would be a visit to the Scout troop. The expectations? His six would finish first in inspection for four consecutive weeks (we talked about ways he could meet this goal), and he would show good behaviour as an example to others for the same four week period.
The Cub not only met the standard but surpassed it. He visited the troop and, shortly after, moved up.
1. Set age-appropriate performance standards.
2. Discuss with the Cub the consequences of meeting the standards and the consequences of failing to meet them.
3. Follow up. Praise positive results as frequently as practical.
Point out times when the Cub does not meet performance standards.
4. If the Cub is not meeting performance standards, review them to ensure they are realistic and appropriate to the circumstances. Follow the rule "Do Your Best" when helping Cubs improve their behaviour.
You need to speak with problem Cubs before setting performance standards. Your talk may give you some insight into reasons for their behaviour. Discuss the situation with the other leaders, too. They may have additional observations to share.
It's always a good idea to talk with parents, since they are ultimately responsible for the Cub's behaviour. Some children act out at Cubs because they are not permitted to act out at home or school. In the less structured environment of the pack, they test their leaders to the limit. When you talk to their parents, you learn that their behaviour at Cubs is completely different fromtheir behaviour in other places. When a Cub realizes he is expected to behave as well at Cubs as at home and his parents support Akela, his behaviour frequently changes.
Sometimes specific discipline problems may be a matter of personal perception. A few years ago, the Akela of our pack said he was at the end of his rope with a particular Cub. I worked with the same Cub and didn't find him a problem. We talked with the other leaders on the team. The Cub didn't create problems for them, either. In this case, the problem was a personality clash between the Cub and Akela. After the leadership team discussed it, Akela became more tolerant of the Cub. Another part of the solution was to put the Cub with other leaders much of the time.
When Nothing Else Works: Occasionally a Cub is so disruptive that we must consider asking him to leave. It is never an easy decision. Some leaders feel we should never remove a Cub permanently. I believe we need to examine every other available option first. If the decision is to remove him, review it with the leadership team, parents, and service team. Explore the option of transferring the Cub to a different pack.
Doesn't that just foist the problem on some other leadership team? Let me tell a personal story. The Cub in question had been kicked out of several packs, but I didn't know that when I showed up early for the year's first meeting, car loaded with equipment because we were moving to a new hall.
I arrived to find a Cub standing by the door in full uniform. He was an older Cub, and I found it curious that he had no badges on his uniform. He approached me, and we introduced ourselves. Without my asking, he began unloading things and carrying them into the hall. "Relax," he said. "I'll bring it all in."
As I prepared for the meeting, he was as good as his word. Then he set up the totem, campfire, six curtains, and flags. When the other Cubs arrived, he started them into a coming-in game and kept them under control.
That evening, I told the Cubs we'd be setting up sixes and picking sixers within the next couple of weeks. I'd already made up my mind that this new Cub, -- Peter, would be one of my sixers.
Peter turned out to be one of the best sixers I've ever had. He tackled every star and just about every badge in his final year, went on in Scouting to earn the Chief Scout's Award and, later, became a Queen's Venturer. This was the boy who had been kicked out of several Cub packs!
Why the difference? I believe that other leaders, warned about Peter, expected him to be a problem. He lived up to the expectations. Since I didn't know I was getting this "terrible Cub", I simply treated him the way he behaved. I believe it's imperative to keep an open mind with our Cubs and not automatically look to a troubled Cub every time something goes wrong.
The next time you're ready to pull out your hair, look at your program. Are you getting 60 minutes out of every hour? Do you have large gaps between program activities? When you do need extra time to set up the next activity, be ready with a few quick games the Cubs can play to fill the time gap. For example, ask Cubs to stand quiet and try to guess how long a minute is. When they think time is up, they sit down.
A strong well-run program reduces problems in the pack. Why pull out your hair when you can sit back and enjoy your Cubs?
Dave Liscumb is ARC (Cubs) Northern B.C. Region.
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 1995 01:17:12 -0600
From: "John E. Campbell" <spectrum@IAG.NET>
Subject: Whoa! Cubs out of control!
Hey Folks!
Something happened tonight that caught me completely off guard. I guess it would be prudent to let you in on the history of our den to complete the picture. As some of you may remember the previous DL was rather lacking in commitment and didn't procure a meeting place. The first 4 meetings were held outside in a local park and were not structured at all, very little was accomplished. Just before we swapped ADL & DL positions he managed to find us a temporary meeting place above a local bowling alley. The 3 meetings at the alley went just fine.
We finally attained a permanent meeting place from our sponsor, the local elementary school. The first meeting there was tonight in the cafeteria. It seemed as though the second they entered the cafeteria it was yell, scream, run and just plain play time. Quite frankly I was flabbergasted at the change. It seemed the second they lost interest or weren't being directly talked to it was back to play time. The ol' conduct candle didn't burn very long tonight.
Has anyone else experience such a metamorphosis?? Has anyone found that some locations work better than others for meetings? Our previous meeting place was much smaller room, maybe 12' by 20', this place is easily 30' by 50'. I'm hoping it is due mostly to the change and that things will settle down.
Any advise, prodding or sympathic story will be greatly appreciated.
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Whoa! Cubs out of control!
John Campbell,
Meeting locations really have a lot to do with how young boys act, its almost like behavioral conditioning. The larger the room the greater the urge to take advantage of it for running and noisemaking, especially if it is a school cafeteria or gym where they are used to unrestrained expression. The best bet is to take advantage of the site for gathering activities to burn off energy with lots of physical activity that is organized and fun. For your meeting there are several options depending on what you have available from your chartering organization:
Second rule is to realize that they have a lot of energy that has been pent up all day at school, which means that patience is a virtue for the leaders - there are just going to be some days. :-)
Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
DDC-Training, GW Dist. Nat Capital Area Council mfbowman@CAPACCESS.ORG
From: "Settummanque, the blackeagle (Mike Walton)"
mwalton@ALPHA.COMSOURCE.NET>
Subject: Re: Whoa! Cubs out of control!
You had it right...it has to do with where the meeting was. Remember that most kids associate the cafeteria/gym area as "Yea! Area", and that could explain the lack of control.
The best way I've found to "pull the reins" on situations like that, would be to use another room and let them "gather" at the cafeteria (to wear them down) and then to hold the actual meeting in another place (the library ALWAYS works wonders...as soon as they get in there, its like all of sudden, their voices drop down and they're whispering...adults too, for some reason...funny how we get so used to what we've been imprinted with as youth!
Hope this helps out!
Settummanque!
(MAJ) Mike L. Walton (Settummanque, the blackeagle)
From: Kem White <dkw@APLCOMM.JHUAPL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Whoa! Cubs out of control!
John,
FWIW, this exact situation occurred with my den. As Wolves (and I was ADL) the DL had us meeting in the school cafeteria. Every meeting the boys were like electrons, flying all over the place with just some vague notion of where the central meeting area was. When we became bears (and I took over as DL) the first thing I did was move the meeting area from the cafeteria into the art room across the hall. The room is much smaller (it's a regular classroom) so they have less room to move around in.
They also relate to the area as a classroom and all of the den, including the most active, are more inclined to sit. When it's game time, we all orderly walk into the cafeteria where they can move aournd. Then it's back into the art room for closing.
Kem White, Webelos Leader, Flaming Arrows Den
Pack 692, Baltimore Area Council - National Pike District
Nentico Lodge | >>>------> |
I am a cub leader with a relatively small pack & have inherited an effective "big stick" for enforcing camp discipline. (Sounds tough.. eh?)
Each cub is given a string of six beads. Each leader and parent helper receives a string of six beads. Cub beads & leader beads are of a different colour. When a cub breaks one of the camp rules, one of his beads is confiscated and added to the leader's string. If a cub runs out of beads, his parents are called & he is removed from camp.
If a cub does something (unasked) worthy of note, a leader will give him a "leader" bead.
At the end of camp, awards (badges, pens etc) are given out. Priority of choice goes to the cubs with the most beads.
We have never had a cub lose more than 4 beads. Some of the older boys will cry when they have a bead taken from them. The process is simple, easily communicated and understood. I'm not sure how well this would work with scouts but it may help.
YIS
Kevin
Akela - 7th Pickering, Ontario, Canada
I've been waiting to see what other ideas are posted prior to putting in my .02 worth. The candle is very good. One other idea I've used and shared is using a 'Jar of Marbles'.
I have two jars...one is filled with solid color blue marbles, the other is empty. Each meeting I give out 5 marbles to each boy. If they did not wear their uniform or bring their book they have to give up one or two marbles. If they wore their uniform to school that day they get an extra or sixth marble as a reward.
If during the meeting they break one of the 'rules of conduct' (which the boys created) they give up a marble. At the end of the meeting as part of our closing ceremony the boys still with marbles put them in the empty jar.
The idea is to get all of the marbles from jar 1 to jar 2. When they have all been transferred we have a party or special event (which they all agree on in the beginning).
It than repeats itself, we decide what our target event will be, than begin transferring marbles back into jar 1 from jar 2. Normally I've found that we get one event each quarter.
The real positive factor is that this brings the responsibility down to the specific boy...and it didn't take long for them to see they didn't want to be the one to loose their marbles. It also brought my den to a 100% uniform at every meeting, and with one or two exceptions everyone brought their books so my record keeping was always up to date.
Regards,
Peter Van Houten <peterva@solar.wv.tek.com>
Kimberli, discipline is seldome a problem is you time the activities so that the NEXT activity is always something they would rather do than what they are doing NOW. My meetings worked best with the following schedule.
For some reason there is always someone eager to do a flag ceremony in a wolf den, so that gets us started. They expect announcements, and have not gotten antsy yet, so it is an easy transition to explaining the activity or craft. When they are finished or bored (same thing) with the craft, they are always receptive to the idea of playing a game, likewise snack.
Also, plan a backup plan for when an activity that sounded great just does not go over with the Scouts. I have had the chance to work with two dens on the same activity at different meetings, and what works with one den might be a complete flop with another, so be prepared with an alternative. As long as you keep them busy they are easy to handle.
Another approach to discipline that worked well for us is the bead jar. Each time they come to a meeting they get one bead for attendance, one for being in uniform, and one for a good turn they have done if they have done one, or if they do one during the meeting. We put the beads in a small jar and when it is full they all get to choose a special treat for the den. We spent part of one meeting coming up with rules of conduct for Scouts that should result in a bead being taken away. I had the Scouts make suggestions on what rules they thought belonged on the list, and then the Scouts voted on them. These became THEIR rules, and thinking about them and deciding about them was a very positive learning experience for them. It only takes a gentle reminder from myself or one of the other Cubs to stop a behavior that is on the list.
BTW, Take a look at the games files in the Scouts-L archives if you have not seen them yet.
YiS, Susan
Only 6? Goodness. Try 16! Anyway, have you tried the pizza candle? I light a candle at the beginning of each meeting. When the boys get out of hand, I blow it out. It is re-lit when order returns. When the candle burns down, I bring in 3 or 4 pizzas, and we pig out. The boys loved this last year. Second idea: get a Den Chief. I have one this year because my Den is sooo big, and this helps too. Lastly, ask parents for help in keeping order. I find that some parents want to help, but feel that it's not their place. Good luck.
Cheers.
Assoc. Prof. W. Rob Roy, Geochemist
roy@geoserv.isgs.uiuc.edu
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 17:08:17 -0500
From: Randy Bernstein <RBERN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Quiet
In a message dated 95-12-01 02:10:26 EST, Kevin Smith wrote::
>latest post's my initial reaction was to raise my Hand and Shout > {{{{{{ PACK
}}}}}}.
>This usually Quiet's Bears Wolf's & Webelos. at Pack meetings.
We're not really having a discussion on quieting the Pack but, I though I would pass along a suggestion I picked up at our Basic Leader's Training (Cubmaster).
Bring along a tennis ball - the multicolored ones are the best but, any will do. Tell the boys that while you are holding the ball, everyone must be quiet. However, if you don't have the ball in your possession they may make all the noise they want.
Periodically, throw the ball to another leader, against the wall (ceiling, etc.) or to one of the dens and let the boys blow off some steam. Anyone who gets the ball must give it back to you ASAP.
This accomplishes 3 things. First, the boys keep their attention focused on you, waiting for the ball to leave your hands. Second, the boys clearly know when to be quiet. Third, the boys have a chance to "go wild" for a few seconds every couple of minutes -- we know how hard it is to sit still for very long.
I try to not have the boys sitting still for very long. I do insist on quiet during flag presentations, award ceremonies, and VERY BRIEF announcements. While they are participating in activities, they should be encouraged to let loose.
Oh yeah, one more thing -- when you are explaining how they can "go wild", stress that there is to be no physical contact (hitting, pushing, kicking, ....the list is endless to a boy).
Randy Bernstein | Eagle 1973, Bronze Palm
Cubmaster, Pack 549 | Troop 33, Des Plaines, IL
Mid-America Council, Frontier Dist. | OA Ordeal '72, Brthrhd '76, Vigil '77
Black Elk Elementary School
Omaha, Nebraska
12/12/95
Last edited: February 22, 2004
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