Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 09:54:29 -0400
From: David Batty <a004972t@BCFREENET.SEFLIN.LIB.FL.US>
Subject: Patrols
What kind of a technique can our troop use to make the patrol leaders have patrol meetings? Our PTL do not have meetings and we ask them to do them over and over again. What can I do. SPL
David Batty SPL, Troop 836 Margate, FL
a004972t@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us Lighthouse District
Margate, FL (Broward County) South Florida Council
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 12:24:36 CST
From: Jim Sleezer <JHS8@VM1.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Patrols
On Tue, 15 Aug 1995 09:54:29 -0400 David Batty said:
>What kind of a technique can our troop use to make the patrol
leaders
>have patrol meetings?
One of the best ways I have seen to accomplish this was to dedicate one week per month for patrol meetings. Where this was in place, patrols met in the home of the patrol leader (or another patrol member) at the regular troop meeting time for the first week of the month. During this time, the SM and the SPL visited each meeting for a few minutes to deal with individual patrol issues. The patrol had an agenda for the meeting that usually included preparing for the patrol's part in the month's troop meetings and in the troop campout. Frequently, an ASM would meet with each patrol. The SM and SPL did a lot of coaching at the PLC meetings relative to how to handle the patrol meeting. PLs were not expected to have all the answers!!!
When my son was in a unit that had this type of operation, he never missed a patrol meeting. That was where most advancement took place and that was where a lot of really neat things happened. He was also one of eight, not one of 30 so he didn't get as lost.
The down side is when the PLs are not given assistance in meeting planning. When my son's PL changed, the new SM was not as good a coach and the PL was not as well prepared for the meetings. They often degenerated into rough-housing with little or no business conducted. You cannot just say to a PL "Have a patrol meeting," you need to provide coaching, guidance, suggestions, ideas, etc. After a PL has been through a few meetings, they will be able to do more and more. They just don't start out knowing it all.
Another possibility is to dedicate part of each troop meeting to patrol meeting time. As a scout, we had from 10 minutes to an hour of each troop meeting for the patrol meeting. The length of time varied by the activities planned for the particular troop meeting. We had longer meetings when the patrol needed to be planning for a campout or some other major activity, shorter ones when we didn't need the time for patrol business. In any case, a few minutes were dedicated to logging attendance and collecting dues. We had separate patrol meetings only a few times a year when we just couldn't get it all done at a troop meeting.
I know of a few troops which dedicate one or two weeks of each month for patrol meetings but at the regular troop meeting site. Each patrol has it's own corner!
Just remembered. When I was a scout, we frequently had a patrol meeting on the troop campout. The SM or an ASM was around to help if we needed it. It gave us an opportunity for guided practice!!
Finally, if there is no reason to meet, why meet??? Meetings for the sake of meetings waste everyone's time!!!
jim Sleezer
Roundtable Commissioner, Pawnee Bill District, Will Rogers Council Stillwater, OKlahoma JHS8 at OSUVM1.BITNET JHS8 at VM1.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU (Internet)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 07:31:45 -0600
From: Ted Burton <tedburtn@HALCYON.COM>
Subject: Re: Patrols
Cannot say that I know a fix, as I have never encountered this problem. On the other hand when as SM I hosted such things in my home, I always tried to stir in some fun. We would order in pizza for the occasion; or hold it in a back room of an estabishment which had games to pay when business was done. Or hold them at a home with a pool, etc. etc. Leaven the business.
Also, but this is gutsy, let the troop fall flat until they see the need.
Or both.
YIS,
Doc Fox
who is netAddressed as: tedburtn@halcyon.com
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 00:46:18 -0400
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject: Re: Patrols
Some Troops set up their meeting area with a table or chairs for each patrol. Each patrol forms before the meeting and they stand there for the opening. After Troop activities, a time is alloted for them to return to the patrol area to take care of patrol business & planning. The time alloted varies according to need. Usually an ASM, JASM, or ASPL sits with the patrol to be a reference source, while the PL runs the short get together. This tends to create a supportive patrol environment and often leads to patrols deciding to meet for their own activities.
Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
DDC-Training, GW Dist. Nat Capital Area Council mfbowman@CAPACCESS.ORG
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 11:56:32 -0400
From: Charles Batteau <B3ZAATN@CPSLSOPS.BELL-ATL.COM>
Subject: Patrols
David -
Our troop has the same problem as yours. The problem seems to
be twofold: (1) lack of time (for separate patrol meetings) and
(2) lack of patrol spirit. The first can be solved by having a
time at each troop meeting for patrol meetings, rather than expecting
separate meetings. Here are some things that I'm working on with
our PLC for the second part:
That's about as far as we've gotten in our troop. Perhaps some others can offer additional tips. It's still a rocky road for us -- you may leave office before it's completely turned around. That's another reason to have the SM & ASMs buying in: they can make sure your successor continues to work on this problem. Best of luck, and keep us posted on how it's coming.
YiS
Chuck Batteau -- SM, Troop 751, Glen Allen VA
charles.r.batteau@bell-atl.com
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:23:09 -0400
From: Bob Myers <rmyers@ONE.NET>
Subject: Re: Patrols
David,
You might try using the Baden-Powell Award as a target for each patrol. The requirements are fairly comprehensive and a patrol that completes them is likely to do very well. You could sweeten the pot by encouraging competition on this between the patrols and offering a significant reward to the patrols beyond the patch segment when they finish.
YIS
Bob Myers, SM Troop 575, Dan Beard Council, Cincinnati, Ohio
rmyers@one.net
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:50:42 CST
From: Claudia Micher de Anda <CLAUDIA@atenas.gdl.iteso.mx>
Subject: Re: Patrols
David:
I would agree with Ted and Bob. I also would like to add some thoughts of my own...
A very efective strategy could be to have special activities for your Patrol Leaders, for your Court of Honour. That will make them feel like a special group, appart from the every-day patrols.
Include in this special camp/dinner/sleep-out/whatever a small talk about leadership, and about their job in the troop (how their scouts wil follow them, how to coordinate and not give orders to their patrols, etc.). I tried this once, and in most of the cases, the girls got the point, and started having meetings even without me!
Hope it's useful.
*----------------------------------------------------* | Maybe I speak too much... I am a communicator. | | Claudia Isabel Micher de Anda. :))))))))))))))) | | claudia@atenas.gdl.iteso.mx I.T.E.S.O. University | | Pablo Neruda #4130-9, Villas del Valle. CP: 45120 | | Zapopan, Jalisco. M E X I C O. | *----------------------------------------------------*
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 13:41:38 EDT
From: Rob Morley <rmorley@STATE.MA.US>
Subject: Re: Patrols
I had a question regarding the message that was posted regarding letting the scouts switch patrols.
Do you have any problems with scouts, especially "non-gang" scouts to move to other patrols. Do the new patrol members accept these new scouts to their patrols. On addition, how does the old patrol leader feel when one of his patrol members moves to another patrol?
YiS
Rob Morley
Troop 67
Braintree, MA
Old Colony Council
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 08:07:32 MDT
From: Carol Breuer <CBreuer@VINES.COLOSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Patrols
The troop I was referring to does not seem to have any major problems with this system, but no system is perfect. As far as acceptance; when a scout wants to join a different patrol, the scouts in that patrol have to agree to accept him. I only know of one case in the last two years that I have worked with this troop that the patrol did not let the scout join, and yes, there were some hurt feelings for a short time, but the scout handled it and the adult leaders really felt it worked out for the best.
If there was a big problem I am sure the SM or another leader would do some counseling as needed. The leaders do keep track of these changes, especially among the older scouts, and the idea is to allow the scouts to be with a patrol where they can enjoy Scouting.
As far as the old patrol leader's feelings on this, I don't have a good answer. But since such changes are accepted practice in this troop and have been for a number of years, I haven't seen a lot of negative feelings toward a scout that changes patrols. But these are good questions, and as troop elections are coming up next month, I will keep them in mind and watch more closely.
Thanks for the feedback,
Carol Breuer, Fort Collins, CO
Asst. District Commissioner
. . . I used to be an eagle, NC-155
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 09:51:24 EST
From: Bruce Ward <Bruce.Ward@SMTPGWY.AGRIC.NSW.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: Patrols
There has been some discussion over the last week about Patrols, and moving members around.
By my way of thinking Patrols are meant to work as self-directed teams (to use some current TQM jargon). If these teams are to work effectively, the mix of personalities must be right, and nobody is that good that they can get it right first time all the time. So some tinkering with Patrol membership is inevitable.
There are however three important things to keep in mind:
Bruce Ward
Australia
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 10:18:41 MDT
From: Carol Breuer <CBreuer@VINES.COLOSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Patrols
In response to Don Tolin's inquiry on patrols:
One of the troops I am Commissioner for allows the scouts to change patrols if they want to at the time elections are held. This allows some flexibility and recognizes the fact that their first choice does not always work out well, especially true with new scouts. And, after some time, the patrol membership seems to stablize and the same boys stay together. On the other hand there seem to be a few scouts that find it easier to change than to work at fitting in with the patrol they are with, and seem to drift from patrol to patrol. That is the negative side. The important factor here is that the changes come because the boys want it, not because the adults realign the patrols.
In Don's situation, the realignment was done and now they realize that probably wasn't the way to do it, but the question is, what should they do now. My suggestion is that if the boys are satisfied with the new patrols they are in now, fine, let them stay as they are. But if a patrol is not working, let the boys decide if they want to make a change. Of course, the other side of the coin is that the patrol that the scout wants to join is willing to accept him as well.
The patrol method is based on the fact that boys like to do things with their friends, and the fun of being part of a "gang". We need to keep that in mind and help the scouts find a patrol that suits them.
YiS,
Carol Breuer, Fort Collins, CO
Asst. District Commissioner
. . . I used to be an eagle, NC-155
12/12/95