This page contains information for units participating in the high adventure treks provided by the Philmont Reservation.
Minimum Age requirement change, quoted from a letter dated October, 1995, from Philmont Director of Program
"Effective for the 1996 season, the new requirement states: "Participants must be 14 by January 1 of the year attending or have completed the eighth grade". The extension to include eighth grade graduates was added to reduce the occurrence of troops splitting peer groups."
From: RAY.DYKE@omhbbs.org (ray dyke)
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 11:05:03 GMT
Subject: Philmont
Steve,
I'll try to answer some of your Philmont questions...
S>> 1. Is the 1995 season already reserved, or are there still spots
S>> available?
My understanding from 2 phone calls to Philmont is that 1995 was all "reserved" by April 1994, with a waiting list of THOUSANDS of spaces in groups who asked for 1995 dates but did not "win" in the lottery. Many groups who are already on the waiting list, will probably get to go as payment deadlines come and go. Groups were expected to pay a small down payment in Spring 1994 but the "major money" is not due for many months. A group that defaults a payment deadline will lose its space and it will be offered to some other group on the waiting list.
A group that has *not* made any reservation yet will most likely *not* get to go in 1995. The only possible (unofficial) slack may be in the end-of-season dates in August, where "short" expeditions are planned.
S>> 2. What treks should they apply for? The boys (ages 13 - 15)
S>> and leaders are all novices when it comes to Philmont and
S>> have never been before.
You don't apply for a trek (hike route) until well after your group's DATE is reserved and accepted. In the past, the "itinerary plan cards" are mailed out in the winter with the "PEAKS" crew leader books, and due back at Philmont in the spring. Crews apply for their top 5 choices of itineraries, and normally get one of the top 3 choices.
Treks range from "typical" (50 miles) to strenuous (80 miles) or more. The shorter treks include more time in program areas and less hiking. If the group has a lot of fast hikers who can handle 10-12 miles per day (30-40 pound packs, elevation 6000 to 12000 feet, highly mixed weather) then they may be able to handle a longer trek. Since we live near the (Smoky) mountains, we can do a lot of wilderness hiking here, so we generally aim for the shorter hikes at Philmont, to maximize program.
Age is a factor, but not as much as hiking experience. Hiking a mile with a full pack at Philmont is probably the exercise equivalent of running (jogging) a mile on level ground at sea level.
S>> 3. What camping and hiking preparations should they make before
S>> going - to prepare themselves for their trek?
Of course the best practice is backpack hiking at high altitudes. One of the Philmont publications for 1993 suggested being able to walk/run about five miles several times a week. That may be more than needed, but there is no doubt that the everyone in the group must be in good physical condition. It's not an "equal opportunity" event, and those with too much weight (me), high blood pressure, any disease that might prevent a person from running track or playing football, those are all good indicators that a person would have problems in the backcountry at Philmont. Some conditions will keep you off the trail, others will just get advice (and probably slow down the group).
Philmont has been changing its camping practices frequently over the years. We have done 10 expeditions since 1960, and have seen many different rules and techniques. In 1993 they did not wash dishes, but poured a little water in the dirty dishes and drank the water (ugh!). In 1989 they made the boys EAT ASHES from the fire. In 1975 chemical stoves were prohibited. In 1993 they were required. Etc. Find a group that is out there THIS summer (1994) and get them to help plan your unit's training program for 1995 or 1996. It's really helpful. Someone who was there several years ago may not know the current rules.
In our troop the "goal" is to have about one backpack hike each month starting in January, so we get in about six overnight hikes in the six months leading up to Philmont. These are open to the whole troop, except perhaps the last "dress rehearsal" which is Philmont only. Then we normally take our last prep hike in the Rocky Mountain National Park (northwest from Denver) on the way to Philmont, to get accustomed to altitude over 10,000 feet and very dry air.
S>> 4. What is a rough estimate for cost, leaving from Houston?
Your council may already have a trip scheduled and may have a full budget and all that stuff. Check with them, since whatever they are charging is probably not far from what your troop will charge. You do not have to go with your council, but you might want to. The 1995 Philmont fee is about $350 per person, including all food and program (and part of the group gear) for the 12+ days the group is on the ranch. Call it $30.00 per person/day, approximately.
Find someone with a van or minibus large enough to carry the group (and gear) so your only mobility cost is gasoline and consumables. From Houston to Raton, it's 700-1000 miles one way, depending on side trips (check any Rand-McNally or AAA Road Atlas) so figure on under 2000 miles (unless you want a *major* side trip). Gas might cost 10-15 cents per mile, or $200 to $300, plus other vehicle stuff, so you might want to budget $400 or more. Add van rental (mileage) if needed. People on the road can eat food that costs $10.00 per day or $30.00 per day, depending on preferences and time. Your overnight stopovers could be free (national parks) or Holiday Inn at $150.00 per room (divide based on occupancy). We like KOA style campgrounds, about $30.00 for the group per night.
If the adults have an extra week vacation (3 weeks total; rare) then you can plan some nice side trips, like the Grand Canyon or the Tetons or Salt Lake. If the adults have only 2 weeks, then your group will probably go directly to Philmont and back again.
Here are some possible (approx.) numbers you can share with them...
One Person Group of 6 Group of 12
Philmont Fees $350.00 $2100.00 $4200.00
Personal Gear 200.00* 1200.00 2400.00
Group Gear 35.00 200.00 300.00
Food en route 100.00** 600.00 1200.00
Six Flags Dallas 30.00 180.00 360.00
Gas and Van Fluids 25.00*** 400.00 400.00
Miscellaneous 10% 75.00
--------- --------- ---------
Possible Totals $850.00 $4500.00 $8000.00
(Approximate!)
Most Scouts in a backpacking troop already own most of the gear, but there *WILL* be some things each person will need to buy, so this personal gear figure will vary. See Philmont Guidebook.
** Food en route: Perhaps 6 days at about $16.00 per day, which is a low average based on grocery stores rather than restaurants.
*** Gas and fluids would cost the same for 6 or 12 if the same van is used. But you don't need a van for just 6 people. Philmont may require minimum group size of 6, 7, or 8. Call them to ask.
Most council trips from 1000 miles away will probably cost $700-$800 per person in 1995 and 1996. Hard to predict, of course. This would not include any of the personal gear. Add $100 for a physical exam, since a real complete physical is required for Philmont (not just the 3-year rule at some summer camps).
Add pocket personal spending money. $10.00 to $1,000 depending on how many souvenirs are ordered by family. Campers spend an average of $80.00 in the Philmont trading posts. Then there is the tour...
And, of course, add a couple of 29-cent stamps so the boys can write home, and maybe $10.00 for laundry.
$1000 per person is not too far from the actual total cost. Sorry if that sounds frightening, but it's realistic. I'm telling our families to figure on a group cost of $800 per person plus personal gear (if they don't have it) and a full physical exam. This is for 1996, really too far in the future to be sure.
Hope this helps. We've done a lot of trips to Philmont, and these numbers are realistic for us. Your mileage may vary, as the EPA says.
Ray Dyke
ray.dyke@omhbbs.org
>How much physical conditioning should the scouts and scouters be doing in
>preparation for Philmont?
Try to begin an aerobic program approx. 4-6 months before leaving. A good way to get into shape is to get your pack and to load it down with as much weight as possible. (Start off light and gradually go up to that weight that you feel that you may carry at Philmont). Find a sports arena with stands to where you can go up and down the steps while wearing the pack.
>What kind of and how many tune-up trips should we be planning?
My troop always does 2 preparation trips before going. Each person (adult and youth) is required to go on at least one of the preparation trips. These are usually held about 7 months and 1-2 months before leaving.
>Is it better to fly (we are in Richmond, VA) or drive?
It would be better for ya'll to fly.
>Where do we fly into?
You can fly into Denver or Alberqueue, but you have to take a bus from on of these points to Philmont.
>How about food supplies?
Philmont supplies all food while you are in base camp and on the trail.
>What should we bring?
Find someone who has an old Philmont Guidebook to Adventure and take a look at the list inside. When you get to Philmont the ranger will tell you to dump most of it but it is better to be safe than sorry.
Scott Meador
smeador@webstar.net or aaa112@ramail.angelo.edu
*** WARNING -- Long Response -- WARNING ****
1. Backpacking trips - It depends. If the boys and adults are great backpacker/hikers already and are in great shape, you can get by with few warm-up trips. I just got back from Philmont, and our worst problem was an adult who wasn't in shape. Fortunately he wasn't overweight and doesn't smoke. I personally picked the 4 hardest climbs I could find in the Great Smoky Mtn Park and did one each weekend for the 4 weeks before we left for Philmont. I also began taking the stairs up to my office back in January of this year. It was only 2 flights, but it helps.
My warm-up hikes all involved 2-4,000 elevation gains in 3-6 mile distance. That matches or exceeds anything at Philmont, although I didn't practice any climbs as steep as the one we took up the "back" side of Baldy. In addition to aroebics I did some jogging, but I hate to jog.
There isn't much you can do about the elevation difference back home & that found at Philmont when you are taking practice hikes.
Aroebics classes would also help adults get in shape for Philmont. The main problems are cardiovascular, not muscular. For example, weight machines aren't as useful as getting your heart/lungs in shape.
The more practice hikes the better, but make sure at least one is a backpacking trip. We had one boy who brought an expensive internal frame pack (which is OK), but it was something he had outgrown (and didn't realize it). He had to tie everything on the outside and had a hard time fitting his share of the crew gear in. He also had no rain cover for his pack because he brought a backpacking poncho. This meant his pack was only covered when he was wearing it. We didn't have garbage bags big enough to cover the shape of his pack with everything tied on the outside! EVERYONE needs a rain suit and pack rain cover. You can tell them, but Philmont is the wrong place for them to learn the hard way...
I bought a new Jansport external frame pack with 6000 sq inches of space and for once had enough room. My son's Jansport holds 4000 +- and he was jambed.
Food - Philmont provides all your food from the time you arrive until you leave. They package dehydrated food from various vendors. Each plastic food pack contains one lunch/dinner or breakfast for 4 people. You will get LOTS of these food packs since you will be carrying your food for 3-4 days at a time. You will get your initial 3-4 day supply at base camp & then will likely resupply at 2 or 3 backcountry commissaries.
Fly or drive: I think the closest commercial airport is in Albuquerque, NM. Our council contengent drove by bus because it was cheaper. To get cheap air fares, we would have had to rent a bus to some city with a Southwest Air route or similar air war town and THEN rent another bus to get us from Albuquerque to Philmont. We drove out in 4 days and home in 2. That was 2 long days covering 750 miles per day.
Another point about trial hikes...we had two boys decide they didn't want to go to Philmont yet because they didn't enjoy hiking the trial hikes. One was 50 pounds overweight and the other is a "loner" who hated to work with a team. I'd rather have them back out before going rather than have a bad time at Philmont and also make it no fun for the others too. I'll stop for now, but would be able to add more if you have further questions.
Ben Alford /\__/\ Work Phone: (615) 974-6721 SM, Troop 15 (o)(o) Great Smoky Mountain Council Knoxville, TN \/ INTERNET: Ben-Alford@UTK.EDU
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 19:45:00 -0500
From: Scott Begin <0005555440@MCIMAIL.COM>
Subject: More on Philmont Lottery..
I would like to add to Bill Eujle's comments on the Philmont Lottery. This is information I picked up at the Philmont Staff Association meeting from Dave Bates, Director of Program for the ranch.
Dave indicated that when reservations were opened for 1994 on April 1, 1993, all available incoming phone lines were jammed for 2 days taking reservations. According to the Spring 1993 High Country (Philmont Staff Association Newsletter), 13,700 reservations were taken on April 1, 7,000 on April 2, and 2,900 on April 5. That was almost 24,000 in 3 days.
Philmont received lottery entries for about 46,000 campers (about 2.5 times capacity of the ranch), of which 18,000 were given reservations. The remaining 28,000 were placed on the waiting list. There were 1700 numbers in the waiting list. As of August 13 (when I talked with Dave), about 2000 of those on the waiting list had been offered spaces because of the failure to pay deposits by those who won slots, taking about 200 off the top of the waiting list.
In our discussion, it was mentioned that the large number of entries may have been attributed to the first year as a lottery system. For example, if 2 neighboring units were going to combine to form a crew, both may have sent in entries planning to cancel one if they got 2.
Another suggestion was that because many units are on a cycle of going to Philmont every n years, they may have sent in an entry a year earlier than they usually would, to have a better chance of getting a slot in the next couple of years. Until several years of lotteries have been held, we won't know what the norm is.
Currently there are a couple of proposals to limit attendance. I can't say if these will be adopted, but beaus of the high demand, I wouldn't be upset to see all passed. The first is to raise the age limit from 13 1/2 to either 14 1/2 or 14. This may eliminate those crews where most of the scouts are just making the age limit. It would help to get more crews at Philmont who are old enough and mature enough to handle it. I'm not saying all 13 year old scouts can't handle Philmont, it is just that a majority of the scouts I saw with problems were younger (My opinion only).
The second is to limit the number of advisors in each crew. Currently, half the crew must be youth (under 21). The proposal I have seen is 3 advisors per crew maximum. This meets the 2 Deep leadership and gives a spare adult in case of injury. The idea is that Philmont is for the Scouts (youth). Less advisors in a crew mean more spaces for Scouts. If the Adults want to experience Philmont, they either need to rotate or participate in the Autumn Adventure program (which is open to all adult crews, although there are no staffed camps or backcountry programs).
The third is to limit units who do not come as part of a Council / District contingent to getting a crew every other year. For example, if Troop 22 had a trek in 1994, they wouldn't be eligible for a trek until 1996. For units with a really active high adventure program, this could be a serious limitation. It may cause units to only take first timers' or to not be able to send some scouts at all. In councils where a troop can register as part of the Council Contingent (and let the council do all the transportation planning), you may have these spaces take up by troops unable to get a troop only reservation. You may also have spaces in the council contingent taken by members of the troop who couldn't go with the troop.
Currently, the Philmont management is looking at ways to increase capacity. The biggest concerns on capacity are land space required to handle all those campers and facilities to hold them. The ability to use the Valle Vidal area of the Kit Carson National forest has helped. If the ranch is able to purchase the Cottonwood Canyon area (NE of the ranch, on the other side of the ridge from Indian Writings), they would have more access to the Valle Vidal, as well as more space to expand programs. This was being talked about when I worked on the ranch in 1988-90, but I'm told the property has been sold and we have a different person to work with (for better or worse). I can't say when it may happen.
As for Facilities, this is an equal problem. There were 32 staffed camps this year, including 3 or 4 in the Valle Vidal. New camps cannot be created overnight: Staff Cabins must be built; Water Sources located; Campsites created. Once a site is identified, it takes at least a year to set it up as a staff camp.
Even if you have the places for Staffed Camps, you also have find qualified staff to run them. When I worked at the Ranch in the late 1980's, finding sufficient staff was a problem. The situation has improved, but is always a concern. There is a special kind of person who can afford to spend the summer at Philmont and can do the job needed.
The last thing is base camp capacity. The rated capacity of the Base Camp dining hall is about 600 or so. According to Dave Bates, there were days where over a thousand people were fed at a meal. When the dining hall was built in the 1970's, it was not expected that they would have that many people coming to Philmont. As one of my fellow BSA members mentioned several times during our trek, "In the 1970's, we though 15,000 campers was a lot."
There is hope on the horizon. There are plans for Base Camp expansion. These look a little more certain than the property acquisition. Current plans are for expansion of the dining hall and the trading post in 1997 (although I can't say for certain when they will take place). There are also plans for a new welcome center / entrance located near the Lover's Leap Road, with a covered bus loading area and more separate Philmont Bus and Private vehicle loading areas. From what I understand, this has been talked about for 25 years, but may finally become reality in the near future.
>From what I can tell, Philmont is experiencing growing pains. It seems like it took a few years to be recognized, but they are finally making plans to work with the situation. I did not see the ranch under the leadership of Lloyd Knutson, who was Program director prior to Dave Bates, but it looks as if Dave is doing more than accepting the status quo. He is trying to improve the ranch through new programs and increased capacity. Although some may doubt the appropriateness of the direction of the vision, I am glad to see that the vision is there.
I have more info to follow.
Yours in Scouting,
Scott A. Begin ASM, T-348, Oak Forest, IL; Calumet Council
5555440@mciamil.com Philmont Staff, 1988-1990
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 09:09:06 -0500
From: Bill Euerle <wjeuerle@CECI.MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Philmont lottery/rese
>Bill, I was told at Philmont this summer that they had determined that it
>would cost five million dollars to increase the capacity by 1000 people each
>season. This looks like it would translate in to about two additional crews
>per day.
>What sets the basic capacity of the camp, is it the number that the dinning
>hall can handle for the incoming and out going crews, or is it the number of
>trails available such that each crew can more or less be alone?
There are quite a few considerations that go into determining crew load. Minimizing impact to wilderness areas of the camp are one. Base camp is the other. Presently, dining hall is probably not the most significant base camp limitation. There were several days where the dining hall said that they served upwards of 900 people at a meal. More immediate is tent capacity in base camp. There were numerous days this summer (more than 10) where crews, upon checking in, were handed trail tents and told to camp wherever they could. (Normally, crews are assigned to wall tents in one of the tent rings) Some of this was a result of crews arriving before their scheduled arrival day, but not all. Most of the other base camp facilities are a little more flexible, but any significant expansion of crew load would require a fair amount of construction work.
Bill Euerle Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 16:18:02 -0500
From: Bob McGwier <n4hy@CCR-P.IDA.ORG>
Subject: Philmont Usage
That should be easy. While I was a crew advisor on 721-T-3/'94 we had the usual advisor's coffee where all the usual folks come in and give a talk to the advisor's. During this meeting they told us how to bring all adult groups, scout groups, non-scout groups, etc. to Philmont in the off season.
It is most assuredly NOT a regular trek. It is less than a week, there are NO staffed camps, and some staff person is with you at all times. A large portion of a Philmont trek is taken up by the fact that you are out on your own for a good portion of the time and you have programs to make it to before dark as a goad. Anyone who is foolhardy enough to go to Philmont for any length of time without adequate mental and physical preparation deserves whatever kind of miserable time they encounter. I sincerely hope that people are being adequately forewarned. I tell my crews (I am on the way back next year) that to enjoy Philmont and all it offers takes commitment.
Commitment to get physically ready and a commitment to operate under a variety of conditions with a wide range of people. I then explain that a the chicken that lays the egg for your breakfast is interested but that the cow that gives you a T-bone is committed.
Bob
Robert W. McGwier | n4hy@ccr-p.ida.org: ham radio, scouts,
Center for Communications Research | astronomy, golf (o yea, & math!) ASM
Princeton, NJ 08520 | Troop 5700, ACM Pack 53, Sanhican #2 WWW,
(609)-279-6240(v) (609)-924-3061(f)| District and Council Activities Chair.
(609-443-8963 (h) | I used to be a Buffalo . . . NE III-120
The following pages are a general outline of planning guidelines and crew handouts.
From: Tom Richardson DICKSONT@CITADEL.EDU
DICKSONT@CITADEL.BITNET
at Philmont 89:716J, 93:706C
Date: September 1993
Re: Philmont Trek Information
Soon after my trail report to the list in July 1993, a fellow SCOUTS-L member asked for our handouts, etc., as models for his troop's expedition. I forwarded a short reply but indicated that I would put things together for posting in the list archive.
Initial comments: recent activity (today is 30 Aug 93) on the list indicates that 1994 treks are full. It can not be emphasized too much that Philmont requires advance planning, that you need to get your RESERVATION in no less than fifteen months in advance.
Note that the RESERVATION is for a contingent slot and an estimate of the number of crews. Actual numbers of participants and the itinerary comes in the winter/spring before you attend.
At the leaders meeting on arrival evening, it was stated that the reservation process will be different for 1995 and subsequent years. That rather than phoning in, one must submit a postcard (to be obtained in advance from Philmont) with a selection of acceptable start dates and that assignments would be made from this. Evidently "we" jammed the telephone switch in Cimmaron so badly that the bank could not get a line for its cash transfer actions! (It is an OLD switch.)
Items in this file: (items are separated by * * *)
* * * (1)
Thinking, etc., for a Philmont Expedition Spring 1990, revised Summer 1991
Recommended Qualifications:
Mechanical Details:
* * * (2)
Troop 700 -- Dorchester Presbyterian Church
September 1991
==========================================
To: Interested and Eligible Scouts
From: Troop 700
Re: Philmont in 1993
We are considering a Philmont expedition in the summer of 1993 (late June - early July). The minimum qualifications are attainment of First Class rank and age 13 before 1 January 1993. In addition, you will need to have adequately prepared yourself by successfully participating in the several shake-down backpack trips we will be holding over the next two years. Even if you already have the Backpacking merit badge, you will need to "do it again" simply for the sake of keeping your edge.
We anticipate a total cost of $1000 per participant; the greater part of this will be for transportation. For comparison purposes, our final 1989 Philmont budget (per person, youth and adult) was:
Total fee charged $644.00
------
Philmont fee 205.00
Airplane Fare 278.00 Charleston to Denver (round trip)
Bus Fare 53.85 Denver to Cimmaron (round trip)
Shirts, Carry-on bag 47.17 including silk-screening
Crew Equipment 15.41 water jugs, first aid stuff, etc.
Food & lodging enroute 26.00
------
Actual Cost 625.43
======
"Surplus" 18.57 returned to families
We anticipate a marked increase in the transportation cost, the rest will probably be subject only to "normal" inflation. (A 1991 trek from this area cost roughly $800.00 per participant.)
If you are interested (and will meet the age/rank requirements), please complete and return the attached reservation form and a non-refundable $20 deposit before 1 April 1992. This might seem like a very long lead time but we must make reservations for the summer of 1993 on 1 Apr 1992 so that we can ensure the desired time slot. If there is insufficient interest, we will return your deposit or credit it towards your 1992 summer camp fee. If crew size must be limited, earlier responses and older Scouts will be given preference.
Note: If there are enough interested and qualified adults, two crews could be constructed and two treks of differing difficulty organized!
=================================================================
Scout ___________________________ is interested in going to Philmont in the summer of 1993. He will be age 13 and will have earned First Class rank on or before 1 January 1993. A non- refundable deposit of $20.00 is attached.
Parent\Guardian ___________________________ phone ______________
address ___________________________________
___________________________________
===
Note: the deposit is now at least $25.00
* * * (3)
Troop 700 -- Dorchester Presbyterian Church
Troop 29 --North Barrington Elementary
Philmont 1993
<page force>
Troop 700 -- Dorchester Presbyterian Church
Troop 29 -- North Barrington Elementary
Philmont 1993 -- Page Two -- EQUIPMENT
NO. REQ'D. ITEM
PACKING
WEARING OR (PACKED IN PLASTIC BAGS)
EATING
PERSONAL and MISCELLANEOUS
TENT PARTNERS WILL SHARE AND CARRY
OPTIONAL ITEMS
<page force>
Troop 700 -- Dorchester Presbyterian Church
Troop 29 -- North Barrington Elementary
Philmont 1993 -- Page Five
* * * (4)
Troop 700 -- Dorchester Presbyterian Church
Philmont 1993
Crew Number is 706C
29 March 93
* * * (5)
Troop 700 -- Dorchester Presbyterian Church
Philmont 1993
Contingent Number is 706C
Dear Tsianina and Kristine:
Your Philmont equipment has some minor differences from the list you have been given.
A. Your Class A uniform will be:
B. Personal items:
C. Additional personal items I also found helpful, include:
If you or your mothers have any questions, give Margaret a call.
* * * (6)
THIS ONE IS FROM EARLY DECEMBER 1988
2. The question has been asked about what is needed for Philmont; presumably Santa has some interest in this operation! A more extensive list will be forth coming. In the meanwhile, three or four items come to mind:
a. Full Class-A summer uniform. We WILL be wearing this while we are traveling. We have a neckerchief, the cover is the SCOUT ball cap. For informal purposes the troop T-shirt will be useful.
b. A GOOD pair of hiking shoes.
c. A pack you can wear and carry your share of the gear.
d. A compact but warm sleeping bag.
MEMO FOR A PARENTS NIGHT
4. Please plan on attending a gathering of all participants and parents or guardians on the evening of Wednesday, 22 March 1989, at the regular Scout meeting time (7:00 PM at Dorchester Presbyterian Church).
5. Please check your phone number and address (including zip code) in the following roster of participants. Please inform us of any errors or changes.
Participants: LIST OF YOUTH PHONE NUMBER AND ADDRESS
LIST OF ADULTS
FOLLOW-UP TO PARENTS MEETING
5. The following information was provided at the group meeting in late March; it is provided a second time as a convenience!
Packs to Dorchester Church on 12 July . . .
Departure from DORCHESTER CHURCH at 5:00 AM, Sat, 15 Jul 89 Please plan to help transport the Philmont crew to the airport.
Return: Plan to meet the Philmont Crew at the airport to pick up your son. Leaders will also need transportation home!
Flights: Delta #710: Charleston to Atlanta (depart 6:30 AM,
Delta #587: Atlanta to Denver Sat, 15 Jul 89)
Delta #1644: Denver to Atlanta (arrive 12:30 AM,
Delta #1012: Atlanta to Charleston Sat, 29 Jul 89)
Chaffee Transportation: 1-800-426-2466, ext. 210399, ask for either Monica or Jan, refer to "BSA Troop 700, Rev. Zedan's Party"
Philmont: 1-505-376-2281 (emergency use only!) give the Expedition Number: 716-J and your Scout's name and wait for a call back!
Write to us at Philmont:
Name of Scout
716-J
Philmont
Cimarron NM 87714
Mail sent after 22 Jul 89 will arrive after we have come home!
6. PHYSICALS -- these are due to Margaret on or before 21 June 89. This is the Wednesday before Summer Camp at Ho Non Wah so there should be minimal problem getting this service from Dale . . .
CHANGE ORDERS!
1. Shakedown date -- CHANGE -- pack shakedown will be at Gnegy Residence on Thursday 6 July 1989 at 7:00 PM. You must attend, it might also be a good idea for your parents to attend also! Have everything you will be carrying on the trail (except food!). You will get these materials back when we get to Philmont. If something is "missing," you will have to get it to Margaret ASAP. The packs will include all personal items as well as the things you and your tent partner will be sharing (this probably should include a roll of GOOD toilet paper).
REWRITE OF A LATE HANDOUT
At the time of departure, all families were given a sheet containing the roster of participants (addresses and phones), the itinerary and contact numbers.
We also had one family with a phone answering machine (they were not then as common as they are now) who we would be able to call if necessary and communicate with the rest of the families.
ADDITIONAL ITEM
If you fly, Denver is the easiest place to get to . . . Colorado Springs and Albuquerque do have airports but these are probably an extra flight connection you will need to arrange. In 1989, we contracted with Chaffee Transit Inc. (132 West First Street, Salida CO 81201) and were very pleased . . . transportation from airport to Philmont and back . . . driver was willing to take us down the US Highway (385?) west of the front range and (same driver) let us stop at the AF Academy for an hour or so on the way back.
From: CIT::DICKSONT 26-JUL-1993 20:21:18.43
To: IN%"CHES@CLEMSON.BITNET"
CC: DICKSONT
Subj: RE: Philmont
Ches:
A quick note before I run off for more vacation! Actually a sandwich, there is a professional meeting in the middle!
I will put together a package of things we have used for Philmont, etc., and ask the listowner to archive it . . . anticipate something in early fall . . .
In the meanwhile: 28 participants is at least three and perhaps four crews, a nice target is 6 or 7 youth and 3 or 2 adults for a crew size of nine . . . this will get you three food packs (at 4 persons per pack) so you can feed your ranger the first few days and then have the NECESSARY excess food for the hungry crew during the rest of the trip. If you have fewer in a crew, you will have to pay for seven and you will probably HAVE to put the adults into the duty roster just so "we're always on KP" can have a negative answer!
Route:
From Charleston:
US78 to Augusta,
I20 to Birmingham,
US78 to Memphis,
I40 to Amarillo,
US 87 to Clayton, and
NM?? to Cimarron.
Four days: Birmingham/Little Rock/Elk City OK are suitable day targets for POV and BSA regs (with your size crew you could charter a common carrier and dispense with the 10-hour/500 mile POV rule). This route is a few hours shorter than taking I26 to Asheville and picking up I40, etc. For you I would advise I85 to Atlanta, etc.
Arrive at Philmont as early as possible, definitely before noon. Late arrivals will get fully processed but it may take through the morning of the day one is to hit the trail so you start "late"
The paperwork etc. of the Philmont process is a workload for one committee-member equivalent, my wife has done a super job twice (1989 and 1993) but this was her "assignment" for the preceding year. Don't add these details to a SM or ASM, the time is not there! Her reward both times was the opportunity to hike Philmont!
Tom Richardson Assoc Prof Chemistry
DICKSONT@CITADEL.BITNET Charleston SC 29409
.edu also works
Scoutmaster, Troop 700 Summerville SC 29483
* * * (8)
Various aspects of 1993 expedition.
In 1989, both my troop and my brother-in-law Dan's troop went to Philmont; we planned it independently but as the process developed we were able to share some ideas etc. As it worked out we got our first choice, he got his second; they were THE SAME itinerary! Unfortunately, his unit left Philmont just hours before we arrived. He did leave a day-by-day notebook for us which was great reading, especially since his trek had had little if any rain and we had more than is normal for the New Mexico mountains. We resolved to try to go together the next time we did it!
In summer 1991, at a family reunion after Desert Storm, we decided to try to do Philmont together. The initial plan was to register as a two-crew contingent (his new troop and my troop) and do the same itinerary but as A and B crews. Since his daughter and a niece were interested (and of an age, etc.) we decided to do this as a Venture activity and my wife would be attached to the crew which had the two female participants. (This was with her full agreement! she was the driving force behind all of this and most definitely the individual who put the preparation time into these events.) As a result, there are two troops etc. on the equipment lists.
Everything went well until about the time we had to pay the initial deposits. For personal reasons, Dan and his sons separated from their new troop and rejoined their former unit (now a 40 mile commute due to a professional convenience move just before Desert Storm). The old troop already had plans for 1993 so we shrunk to one crew . . . my troop plus Dan and three sons and a daughter and a niece (and her father). Then my (now down to three) Scouts decided to (1) work summer camp, (2) earn money for college, and (3) accompany his father on a Permanent Change of Station (Navy dependent)!
We were left with a family crew! Registered with Philmont as out of Coastal Carolina (source of paperwork!) with a tour permit from suburban Chicago (that's where all the youth lived). We abandoned common carrier transportation plans and worked it up for personal vehicle (POV) transportation!
The transportation notes in the previous section were those for POV with my Scouts before I "lost" them ... the numbers were small enough that I could do it in a van. Dan was planning train from Chicago to Raton and then the Philmont shuttle.
A note on transportation . . . check out the price for a common carrier before deciding on POV. Unless you have a very small contingent, it is generally less expensive (time and effort as well as $).
A thought: one advantage to POV is that you have a place store things that are not going on the trail, a place that is perhaps a little bigger than the equipment locker?
Operation as a family crew was successful because we held to BSA regs and expectations; there was no "special treatment" because of the family ties. We were a small crew and the adults participated in the duty roster.
To answer a question which was left on the net after my trail report. YES, we had fun! we enjoyed it! and we all want to go back, even the two young women.
Last edited: February 22, 2004
The NetWoods Virtual Campsite, Steve Tobin, Campmaster